Re: mutt/1296: iso date/time format by default
On 2005-10-01 13:42:05 -0400, Derek Martin wrote:
> Normally, "default" when applied to configuration of computer software
> means "compiled in settings, in absence of any user configuration."
You need to be more precise. In general, there is already a user
configuration when the account is created (e.g. the shell, but
the administrator could provide more, such as a default .profile,
which can then be modified by the user).
> That is what we usually mean by defaults when we discuss them on this
> list, and I'm nearly positive that is the definition that Alain was
> using... It certainly is the one I took him to mean. [Note that I said
> "usually" -- that does not mean the same as always.]
>
> But then, there is a second sense of the word which can be applied as
> well, so for the sake of clarity, we can qualify the term. What I
> just described are "system defaults" -- in total absence of any
> configuration, that's what you get. On Linux and Unix systems, this
> is ALWAYS a locale of either C or POSIX, unless some off-the-wall
^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
> Linux distribution has decided to change the compiled-in settings of
> their glibc...
This is contradictory. So, in short, a Unix system provides a locale,
which can be C, POSIX or another one. But one can't say that C or
POSIX is the default locale for the system, since the locale really
depends on the system (and there isn't always a fixed default one).
> Vincent described a system administrator providing a "default" at
Not necessarily a system administrator (this could be the vendor
of the system).
> installation time... But this is no longer the system default,
> because a user (the system administrator) has provided some
This is not necessarily a user of the machine.
> configuration information to the programs which use it. These
> settings (they are settings, not defaults) now become the default
> settings for all users. Thus they are defaults in a sense, but they
> are "user defaults" -- NOT system defaults.
They are possibly system settings, but not user defaults. The user
defaults would be settings that the user can modify, e.g. the default
$HOME at the creation of the user account.
> Thus, quite literally, what Alain said is 100% accurate:
>
> > > Start a full default Mutt on a full default system: It talks
> > > English.
>
> That is, in the total absence of any locale settings, Mutt will use
> English as the default. This is unquestionably true.
Which is not what Alain said.
Anyway, if Alain wants to consider systems where absolutely nothing
is configured (in the cases this is possible), then I don't see any
reason why to consider these systems for the default Mutt configuration.
Also, the point is not what to do when the current language is the
English one, but what to do for each possible language.
--
Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@xxxxxxxxxx> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA