Re: split display?
Hm, I need to split this mail because I got it back with a message
telling me that only 20k characters are allowed.
This is part two.
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 09:34:49AM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > But this way is as much a result of what options/ways mutt offers its
> > users as it is a result of what I made of it. I've been using other
> > MUAs and came to other ways with them, but having mail in the inbox
> > until I have decided what to finally do with it is something I always
> > did. That's one of the things the inbox is for.
>
> That's a choice that you've made, but it's completely arbitrary.
The other choice is having categories. But that would take a MUA that
supports them. It's not an arbitrary choice, just as it isn't an
arbitrary choice for the book keeper to need shelves.
> With any modern e-mail system, the concept of Inbox is largely
> obsolete; you can have as many Inboxes as you like, and call them
> anything you like. Mutt is designed to handle this, as is every
> modern mail client (as well as most of the ancient ones). A lot of
> people still use an Inbox, but there is no technical reason they
> need to... it's a completely arbitrary choice based solely on
> personal preference and custom.
This is true, but what does it matter? Tell the book keeper that he
can have as many baskets for incoming bills as he wants, and you'll
find that it isn't something he wants. He may want to have one basket
for bills the company is supposed to pay and another one for bills the
sales department has written for customers. Maybe he'll have one or
the other basket for particular customers that get a lot of bills or
require special attention, but certainly not many of them. He
processes the bills and keeps them on the shelves for a while, and
after two years, he moves them into the basement.
So where are the shelves? A lager number of baskets isn't a
replacement for shelves.
> So? If that's what you want, then do it. Mutt will prompt you, but
> you don't have to blindly follow what Mutt does. Just press '?' to
> get the list of your folders, and then choose the one you want.
Can it show the list of folders immediately instead of prompting me
first?
> > When you look at other MUAs, many of them make it a lot easier to move
> > mail into different folders and to handle different folders than mutt
> > does. Mutt is great for handling a lot of mail, but not for handling a
> > lot of folders.
>
> I strongly disagree with that statement. One of the reasons I chose
> Mutt is because I think it has THE BEST support for this of all MUAs,
> despite certain minor issues I have with it.
Then why is it so fumbly? It's fumbly with local maildirs, but try it
with IMAP. If you don't enter all the folders you have on the IMAP
server into the configuration or something, it's horrible. And every
time you create a new IMAP folder or delete one, you'd have to edit
the config again ...
> I suspect that you may feel this way because you do not actually
> know all of the things that Mutt can do.
Yes, I don't know everything mutt can do.
> > Displaying a list of maildirs (folders) instead would make sense.
>
> But, but, but... MUTT DOES THIS TODAY! So if this is all you need
> (and that's what I've been saying from the beginning), you already
> have it.
Sort of, but not really. How do I make it so that I can see particular
folders (i. e. the ones I would use to simulate categories) in the
list of mail that is in my inbox? Then I could tag mail, move the
marker to the category and press s to move the tagged mail into the
category. It could be so easy ...
> > You could say that mutt is designed to handle a lot of mail and each
> > mail individually, accessible through a list of mails. That you can
> > switch to different folders is not actually supported and only
> > "merely possible".
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about. I think you just don't know
> how to use Mutt properly...
Well, see the paragraph above. It's an example of how using folders
could be supported.
> > What you would see would be pretty much what ancient file managers
> > like mc or norton show you: A list of directories (mail folders) and a
> > list of files (mails). You would have options to get these lists
> > sorted the way you want and have better ways to move mail from one
> > folder to another.
>
> You already have this. You just need to learn how to use it. It's
> not in the message list, because it's not a list of messages... it's
> in the folder browser, because it's a list of folders.
And why can't the message list and the folder browser work together
and make it easy to use folders?
> I suggest you start Mutt with "mutt -y" on the command line. It will
> give you a list of all your mailboxes, and allow you to select them.
> You can also get here by pressing 'c' to change folders, and then '?'
> to show the list.
Ok, let me put it this way: I don't want to change folders all the
time. I don't want to be limited to a list of either messages or
folders, and I want an easier way to move mail into different
folders.
On a side note, I always wanted to be able to edit mail while still
using mutt, and I would like it to be able to see different mails from
eventually different folders at the same time. I could start many
instances of mutt, but that isn't what I want.
Mutt makes a very harsh separation between folders and mail, or the
lists of them. It doesn't help you in working with your mail storage
as a whole because it always hides most of it and limits you to
something particular, like a single mail. That leaves a lot to wish.