Re: Poll: personal convenience vs. global improvement of docs
Mooo!
I've let some time pass to cool down and relax to do away the steam
and focus on the content. I'm sorry for the long delay, it takes
some time to read + write _carefully_, and this is what I do: care.
Do you care? Do you care to read? For a well reasoned vote it is
_mandadatory_ to _carefully_ read _all_ of /Discussion, /Vote and
the main page. I hope Thomas (tlr) doesn't listen just to the mass
of "gut feeling" deciders.
In short:
some of you MISS THE POINTS of all of this (and/ or how to do it)!
init0 (from IRC) asked my why I put the poll originally so
defensively. Because I hoped the mutt community would respectfully
read _all_ the stuff, understand and then act accordingly (how +
why to vote, not what).
But obviously some of you are
disrespectful, uncaring, unable or arrogant snobs
(or a combination of those) to RTFP (m=poll), or else I don't
understand how some failed to even edit a page, or begin repeating
stuff already covered and adding LOTS of repeated stuff on the
/Vote page, where it doesn't belong.
> we need your vote to learn whether _you_ (personally, individually)
> are willing to accept
> a major (single) change of your personal muttrc
> in favour of improved docs support for newbies by introducing
> a muttrc variables naming scheme.
> {...}
> Ideally we'd like you to make a well reasoned vote by inspecting
> all pro and contra arguments and decide only then for yourself.
> {...}
> However, whether you personally as part of the current users
> accept the cost for newbie users is the very subject of this poll
> to find out. So, you decide for yourself.
> But see also the replies to this main and other arguments.
This very experience already disqualifies one argument brought up:
that users should RTFM (at all, at first or even wholly). When you
don't do that, how can you expect this from new mutt users to RTFM
a _reference_ manual as a whole for single lookups?
You force me to be more offensive and straight forward "into your
face". I use UPPERCASE as emphasis, not as shouting.
This is no offense, PLEASE, I just need the help to point out
what has gone wrong so far not to fail again.
I'm sorry for those who already got it right the 1st time, so
please bear with me when it comes across AGGRESSIVE, unintendedly.
I asked to read _CAREFULLY_ + _COMPLETELY_ before you act. This is
all about whether you CARE or not (reading instructions,
counter-arguments, find the edit button: several have failed 1st
time, not just one ;).
I can't help you if you don't care, but I (being a veteran user
myself) do care ... not for my own convenience, but for the easier
access to SHARE MY JOY OF MUTT WITH NEW USERS.
---
I had to apply a BIG UPDATE due to OUTGROWTH of this discussion.
To make it easier for you as much as I want to make it easier for
manual users, I have gone through all what has been said at the
wrong places (vote-comments and here) to IMPROVE THE CALL FOR
VOTES PAGES so you can do better and VOTE _FORMALLY_ PROPERLY
(how, why, not what: "what" is up to you, "how+why" is up to the poll)!
Now, go back, do your homework right this time:
- read it ALL, read it CAREFULLY, understand it.
- think about it: if you then have something NEW to add, ONLY THEN
do so on the /Discussion page or mutt-users.
- act accordingly and vote WELL REASONED.
THOSE OF YOU WHO ...
- gave lengthy comments to their votes (no matter what vote):
trim your comments down as described on the /Vote page!
- voted "no" or "undecided":
REREAD ALL /Discussion and THEN (re-)evaluate ONLY your
OWN willingness for YOUR OWN personal sacrifice.
Several NEW and MORE detailed points have been added.
I summarize at the end of this eMail just a FEW topics:
READ ALL + THE DETAILS on the /Discussion page!
(You can diff page version to see what changed since you checked
last time)
EVERY CONTRA REASON SO FAR HAS BEEN COVERED (disarmed) THERE IN DETAIL.
So please, go and read it ALL to make a well reasoned vote.
Read FIRST + ALL before you write. Save your time for not writing
and our time for not having to read what has already been covered!
Don't repeat: a reason is not more valid when you repeat.
Don't attach your name to a reason or vice versa:
reasons are not more valid when made by any specific person.
Comment to vote: SHORT! No discussion, just list some key reasons given
in /Discussion(!) that were most important for your vote.
Anything that is NOT or NOT SUFFICIENTLY covered on /Discussion
(to make you vote "yes"), bring it on ... either on mutt-users or
add it yourself to that page.
=== SUMMARY of SOME points, see ALL+ more DETAILS on /Discussion!
=== Only rise issues that HAVE NOT YET BEEN WRITTEN! Read FIRST!
=== Then re-evaluate your /Vote!
- BIG numbers to balance:
various types of (MANY) MANUAL USERS:
- casual, read all, read never, read single/ few items.
- EVER GROWING number of newbies.
- many _UNHEARD_ STABLE users STILL FACING UPGRADE with
"alternates" + "envelope_from", who'll certainly
"CRY" as much as if not more than the "dev" users,
which could be HELPED with this /Script, and then
number of changes doesn't matter.
VS.
- a _fixed_ number of one-time changers ("dev" users only)
who should be able to cope with it without crying
given ANNOUNCEMENT and /Script.
- Purpose of "dev" users:
That's what "dev" is for anyway: being spearhead for
changes. That's their risk to have to do more work than
stable users and to learn WHAT CAN SAVE STABLE USERS from
the same pains they had to go through!
If despite the crying "dev" users you want to see the
"stable" users CRY THE SAME, you simply IGNORE TO LEARN
FROM THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST. That would be a VERY SAD
fact to learn about you.
- I don't think we're faced with a question of what is right, but
a matter of preference which inevitably is going to vary between
people.
Incorrect, it _IS_ about right+wrong and preference. It is
"right" to help the weak (newbies), but since this causes
pain to oneself, some prefer to deny the facts and declare
other side as irrelevant/ minimal/ not worth it as "lame
excuse".
BUT the RELEVANCE has already been SHOWN on the
/Discussion + main page, and the WORTHYNESS is the VERY
MATTER of this /Vote. One person being against personal
sacrifice doesn't mean it should vote on behalf of those
who don't vote themselves
AS TO PROTECT THEM, ASSUMING they must/ would decide the same!
It's about whether this software and its docs is going to
serve primarily the old users' convenience or new users'
easier access to it.
- improve docs rather than change names:
This _is_ improvement of docs since the names are part of it.
This is not meant as ONLY or FINAL improvement, but the
1st and--despite requiring some oldies to update their
config--a seriously useful one.
If we do this, we should not stop improving other parts of
the manual. That was never my intention. But big things
first when a big release is coming upon many stable users
anyway! NOW IS THE BEST TIME FOR IT for the BIG CHANGE for
stable users and maybe call it 2.0!
- no gain.
It _IS_ a gain. Maybe not for you because you're a veteran
user or never used the manual (or needn't anymore), but it
is for many other _newbie_ users who _must_ use it.
- you want ideal users to rtfm.
Not all people read nor are nor should be required to read
the whole manual just for minor changes when the defaults
already serve well. True, ideally people should read whole
docs even if they change just a single var, but that's
even for my taste too much.
As much I want to have them ideal myself--believe me I'm
easy to shout "rtfm" (MuttChannel can confirm ;)--reality
tells that they do not rtfm _all_ at once or at 1st or all.
MEANINGFUL names help FINDING where to rtfm and notice potential
SIDE-EFFECTS or other useful input by "related".
- transition time:
by need: some minimum of at least next official release,
max ... mutt 2.2 (assuming next is called 2.0 :)?
- multiple versions of mutt:
section 3 of rtfm, ugrade config only where upgrade binary.
- muttrcbuilder + good docs, names don't matter:
Not all use/ like using automated configs nor can they do
all complex stuff, and when you already have to use the
manual, people look up the simple stuff, too. If you have
no idea, intuitive names do help, both finding stuff in
the manual and understanding _without_ looking it up!
Besides, if they don't matter to you, then the only thing
you FEAR is applying the /Script once YOURSELF?
Why so scared?
- var names you are used to you remember, others don't matter:
Wrong, I don't remember them all, and I don't think I'm
the only one. Have to look them up many times. Old users
_have done_ their configs which they rarely change anymore
and therefore have no need to look'em up again. But
newbies have to! And for them it helps!
--
© Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal!
Even if it seems insignificant, in fact EVERY effort counts
for a shared task, at least to show your deserving attitude.