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Re: when replying, use envelope recipient



* Derek Martin <invalid@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> [12-19-06 21:10]:
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2006 at 07:56:08PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > Agreed to a point.  The text of the OP's request indicates a grasp of
> > more than just the basics.  
> 
> Quite frankly, my comments were largely aimed in your direction... you
> are one of the people who is, in my opinion, regularly much too quick
> to jump on the "RTFM" train.  I'm tempted to search the archives for
> "Patrick Shanahan RTFM" to see how many results come up...  In fact,
> doing such a search on Google is somewhat revealing:
> 
>   http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Patrick+Shanahan+RTFM

Yes, I have done my share, but you take the search 'out of context'. 
Many of the ?matches? come from quoted mat'l, suggestions after/before
the fact with accompanying directions or suggestions....

Your context presents these comments as a personal affront, imo.
 
> One need not even click on the links to see the pattern.  At least it
> isn't just this list... you're pretty consistent about it.  One
> wonders why you bother to post on mailing lists at all.

again  :^)
 
> > He even stated that he is completely able to answer his own
> > question, but that it would be easier to ask someone else.
> 
> Yes, he did say those things, and who can blame him?  Mailing lists
> have become an environment of flame wars, condecension, and generally
> insulting behavior.  God knows in the past I've been involved in far
> too many of those myself, and I finally came to the conclusion that
> the Internet would be a much better place if people like me would shut
> the hell up, or at least change their attitude.  If you're not going
> to help people, why say anything at all?

and now you are wandering from the point.  It also may rain tomorrow.
 
> I'm sure everyone who posts a message on this list can find the answer
> to their question on their own, EVENTUALLY, after perhaps hours of
> searching...  But doing so can be exhausting and monumentally
> time-consuming.  If someone is standing by, ready and willing to
> provide the answer at a moment's notice, why should anyone need to go
> through all that?  It is a complete waste of time, and being told,
> time and time again, to RTFM only serves to frustrate, infuriate, and
> alienate people.

Are you saying that that is my only function here?  Sure seems like it.
 
> I'm not saying that a glance at the manual, or at list archives, isn't
> called for.  And yes, this question IS one that has been asked before
> on this list.  But, like a lot of questions, it isn't one that's easy
> to phrase in such a way that a quick search on-line or in the manual
> will quickly and easily turn up the answer.  That is true for a great
> many of the questions that are asked here; even ones that get asked a
> lot.
> 
> > Thus, "totally wrong for Mutt" is erroneous.
> 
> I'm not surprised you feel that way.  That's a big part of why I wrote
> that message in the first place.
> 
> > *Some* people need help, the OP requested someone to solve his
> > problem because it would be *faster* for him.
> 
> So?  You make it sound like trying to solve problems quickly is Evil.
> I don't see a problem here.  He asked his question, someone was happy
> to answer him, problem solved.  Hooray!  The mailing list works as
> intended... and there was much rejoicing.  =8^)

and a good time (TM) was had by all.
 
> You're right: Sometimes it is more useful to point people to the
> right section of the manual.  This is not such a case.  The answer to
> the question is short, and doesn't require a lot of explanation.
> Finding what is needed in the manual, without knowing what it is, by
> contrast, is long, difficult, frustrating, and totally unnecessary,
> thanks to this mailing list.  Most users do not also want to be system
> administrators; they just want to get some work done.  For such
> people, reading through endless pages of documentation to find the
> simple answer to their questions is nothing but an obstacle, and not
> an enjoyable one.  This is precisely why lists like this one exist.

yes, :^), to enhance the fine documentation.
 
> And FWIW, I do recognize that you sometimes do offer useful
> information.  But I think that everyone could do without all the
> attitude that sometimes goes along with it:
> 
>   http://does-not-exist.org/mail-archives/mutt-users/msg04761.html

but you only cite what supports your jist, what about what created the
situation?

  http://does-not-exist.org/mail-archives/mutt-users/msg04754.html
 
> Have a nice day.  :)

and Merry Christmas to you and yours,   :^)

-- 
Patrick Shanahan                        Registered Linux User #207535
http://wahoo.no-ip.org                        @ http://counter.li.org
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        OpenSUSE Linux             http://en.opensuse.org/