Re: when replying, use envelope recipient
* Derek Martin <invalid@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> [12-19-06 21:10]:
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2006 at 07:56:08PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > Agreed to a point. The text of the OP's request indicates a grasp of
> > more than just the basics.
>
> Quite frankly, my comments were largely aimed in your direction... you
> are one of the people who is, in my opinion, regularly much too quick
> to jump on the "RTFM" train. I'm tempted to search the archives for
> "Patrick Shanahan RTFM" to see how many results come up... In fact,
> doing such a search on Google is somewhat revealing:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Patrick+Shanahan+RTFM
Yes, I have done my share, but you take the search 'out of context'.
Many of the ?matches? come from quoted mat'l, suggestions after/before
the fact with accompanying directions or suggestions....
Your context presents these comments as a personal affront, imo.
> One need not even click on the links to see the pattern. At least it
> isn't just this list... you're pretty consistent about it. One
> wonders why you bother to post on mailing lists at all.
again :^)
> > He even stated that he is completely able to answer his own
> > question, but that it would be easier to ask someone else.
>
> Yes, he did say those things, and who can blame him? Mailing lists
> have become an environment of flame wars, condecension, and generally
> insulting behavior. God knows in the past I've been involved in far
> too many of those myself, and I finally came to the conclusion that
> the Internet would be a much better place if people like me would shut
> the hell up, or at least change their attitude. If you're not going
> to help people, why say anything at all?
and now you are wandering from the point. It also may rain tomorrow.
> I'm sure everyone who posts a message on this list can find the answer
> to their question on their own, EVENTUALLY, after perhaps hours of
> searching... But doing so can be exhausting and monumentally
> time-consuming. If someone is standing by, ready and willing to
> provide the answer at a moment's notice, why should anyone need to go
> through all that? It is a complete waste of time, and being told,
> time and time again, to RTFM only serves to frustrate, infuriate, and
> alienate people.
Are you saying that that is my only function here? Sure seems like it.
> I'm not saying that a glance at the manual, or at list archives, isn't
> called for. And yes, this question IS one that has been asked before
> on this list. But, like a lot of questions, it isn't one that's easy
> to phrase in such a way that a quick search on-line or in the manual
> will quickly and easily turn up the answer. That is true for a great
> many of the questions that are asked here; even ones that get asked a
> lot.
>
> > Thus, "totally wrong for Mutt" is erroneous.
>
> I'm not surprised you feel that way. That's a big part of why I wrote
> that message in the first place.
>
> > *Some* people need help, the OP requested someone to solve his
> > problem because it would be *faster* for him.
>
> So? You make it sound like trying to solve problems quickly is Evil.
> I don't see a problem here. He asked his question, someone was happy
> to answer him, problem solved. Hooray! The mailing list works as
> intended... and there was much rejoicing. =8^)
and a good time (TM) was had by all.
> You're right: Sometimes it is more useful to point people to the
> right section of the manual. This is not such a case. The answer to
> the question is short, and doesn't require a lot of explanation.
> Finding what is needed in the manual, without knowing what it is, by
> contrast, is long, difficult, frustrating, and totally unnecessary,
> thanks to this mailing list. Most users do not also want to be system
> administrators; they just want to get some work done. For such
> people, reading through endless pages of documentation to find the
> simple answer to their questions is nothing but an obstacle, and not
> an enjoyable one. This is precisely why lists like this one exist.
yes, :^), to enhance the fine documentation.
> And FWIW, I do recognize that you sometimes do offer useful
> information. But I think that everyone could do without all the
> attitude that sometimes goes along with it:
>
> http://does-not-exist.org/mail-archives/mutt-users/msg04761.html
but you only cite what supports your jist, what about what created the
situation?
http://does-not-exist.org/mail-archives/mutt-users/msg04754.html
> Have a nice day. :)
and Merry Christmas to you and yours, :^)
--
Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535
http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org
HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
OpenSUSE Linux http://en.opensuse.org/