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Re: How do I come back from viewing the message to index?



Hello Alain,

On Wed, Aug 09, 2006 at 03:24:54PM +0200, Alain Bench wrote:
>     Unless you're viewing the help page of less: Then a first [q] exits
> from help, and a second [q] quits less.

I guess that's right... I've never used the help screen in less, and
didn't even know there was one (though I'm not surprised).  I guess I
was born knowing how to use less...  ;-)

This is a good point; I see what you're saying, but in the end I
really don't agree.  This doesn't really change my opinion, it only
changes the way I need to think about it / explain it.  In this case,
it (less) actually does seem much more consistent...  The help screen
runs just as if it were a different instance of less (though it
isn't).  In that case, 'q' quits that separate logical instance of
less, and returns you to a different logical instance of less, which
behaves exactly the same way as the first.

Mutt does not do that.  If you press 'q' within Mutt, it might quit
the program; or, it might take you to a different mode of mutt which
behaves completely differently from the one you were just in.  Thus it
has different meanings in different contexts.  This is fine if it's
what you want; but it is NOT intuitive, and should not be the default
behavior, IMO.  Particularly in mail programs, 'q' normally means
quit, and quit means exit the program.  In Mutt it has split
personality disorder.

>     Such staged quitting model can be found nearly everywhere. It makes
> full ergonomic sense, is frequently the one preferred by many or most
> users, and as such is often the default model.

The only other place I can recall ever seeing it was in vi, and even
there, the meaning is the same: quit the current buffer.  The big
difference between mutt and all of these others is that in all of the
others, the concept of quit does not change.  The behavior is
consistent.  With mutt, 'q' changes the mode of mutt, or quits,
depending on what mode you are in.  I maintain that this is not
intuitive or logical.

>     Mutt does all that.

It does, but by default it does it in a way that is not optimal or
intuitive, IMO.

>     By default the [q] key in pager is not bound. 

Hmm?  I don't think this is correct...  I have no key bindings
whatsoever in any of my mutt config files, and yet when I press 'q' in
the pager, it brings me to the index.

> What [q] does there is the generic <exit> function. You can use the
> uppercase [Q] key (bound to <quit>) when appropriate. Or configure
> immediate quit as default behaviour thru:
> 
>  bind pager   q       quit

Sure, I can... but I don't think users should need to do this.  I
think it should be a goal of Mutt to provide the most consistent and
intuitive interface to its users by default...  It's great that Mutt
has the power and flexibility to allow people to deviate from that
when they want to, but I think one of the development goals of Mutt
(and all programs) should be  to prevent the need to do that, as much
as possible.  Most people want to USE their mail program, not hack it,
and I definitely fall into that category.  There are many areas where
I believe mutt needs to improve in this regard, and this is but one of
them.  

Thanks for your mail, Alain.  Your perspective is always quite
valuable.

-- 
Derek D. Martin    http://www.pizzashack.org/   GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02
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