<<< Date Index >>>     <<< Thread Index >>>

[IP] more on No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye!



Title: more on   No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye!

------ Forwarded Message
From: Josh Duberman <pivotalinfo@xxxxxxx>
Reply-To: <pivotalinfo@xxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 19:19:51 -0800
To: <dave@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [IP] No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye!

Hi - I forwarded these messages to author David Brin.
His reply is below, and he gave permission for you to post it IP if you wish.

Thank you and best wishes - Josh
------------

Josh, thanks for sharing these remarks about privacy.
Alas, these folks are falling for the usual trap that
has snared so many well-meaning people for the last
decade.  They are right to worry about creeping Big
Brotherism... and vigorously defending the wrong
stretch of wall.

What weird reflex is it, that makes bright people fall
for the trap of seeing SECRECY as a friend of freedom?
(Oh, when it's YOUR secrecy you call it "privacy.") To
rail against others seeing, without suggesting  any
conceivable way that

(1) the technologies could be stopped or
(2) how it would help matters to stop govt
surveillance even if we could.

As I've emphasized in The Transparent Society, the
thing that has kept us free and safe has been to
emphasize MORE information flows.  To
ENHANCE how much average people know.  

http://www.futurist.com/portal/future_trends/david_brin_empowerment.htm

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/08/04/mortal_gods/index_np.html

And yes, this is the one way to protect genuine
PRIVACY... though any sensible person knows that the
word will be re-defined in a new century flooded with
cheap cameras.

(For a look at the near future, see:
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/workplace/1078288485.php)

This inane reflex to try to blind others, instead of
empowering citizens to look back, is like a drug,
alas.  But slowly people are awakening to the facts.
The world will be a sea of cameras and vision.  But
that needn't be a nightmare, if we can hold the
watchers accountable by looking BACK.

With cordial regards,

David Brin
www.davidbrin.com <http://www.davidbrin.com>

David Farber wrote:

Orwell was an amateur djf


------ Forwarded Message
From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:lauren@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:38:28 -0800
To: <dave@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:dave@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <lauren@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:lauren@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye!

Dave,

It's time to blow the lid off this "no expectation of privacy in
public places" argument that judges and law enforcement now spout out
like demented parrots in so many situations.

Technology has rendered that argument meaningless -- unless we
intend to permit a pervasive surveillance slave society to become
our future -- which apparently is the goal among some parties.

It is incredibly disingenuous to claim that cameras (increasingly
tied to face recognition software) and GPS tracking devices (which
could end up being standard in new vehicles as part of their
instrumentation black boxes), etc. are no different than cops
following suspects.

Technology will effectively allow everyone to be followed all of the
time.  Unless society agrees that everything you do outside the
confines of your home and office should be available to authorities
on demand -- even retrospectively via archived images and data -- we
are going down an incredibly dangerous hole.

I use the "slimy guy in the raincoat" analogy.  Let's say the
government arranged for everyone to be followed at all times in
public by slimy guys in raincoats.  Each has a camera and clipboard,
and wherever you go in public, they are your shadow.  They keep
snapping photos of where you go and where you look.  They're
constantly jotting down the details of your movements.  When you go
into your home, they wait outside, ready to start shadowing you
again as soon as you step off your property.  Every day, they report
everything they've learned about you to a government database.

Needless to say, most people would presumably feel incredibly
violated by such a scenario, even though it's all taking place in
that public space where we're told that we have no expectation of
privacy.

Technology is creating the largely invisible equivalent of that guy
in the raincoat, ready to tail us all in perpetuity.  If we don't
control him, he will most assuredly control us.

--Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@xxxxxxxx or lauren@xxxxxxxxxx or lauren@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800
http://www.pfir.org/lauren
Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org
Co-Founder, Fact Squad - http://www.factsquad.org
Co-Founder, URIICA - Union for Representative International Internet
                     Cooperation and Analysis - http://www.uriica.org
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com


  - - -

  
 

------ Forwarded Message
From: Gregory Hicks <ghicks@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:ghicks@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: Gregory Hicks <ghicks@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:ghicks@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 09:42:03 -0800 (PST)
To: <dave@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:dave@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <ghicks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:ghicks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Ruling gives cops leeway with GPS

Dave:

For IP if you wish...

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/storyprint.asp?StoryID=322152

Ruling gives cops leeway with GPS
Decision allows use of vehicle tracking device without a warrant
 
By BRENDAN LYONS, Staff writer
First published: Tuesday, January 11, 2005

In a decision that could dramatically affect criminal investigations
nationwide, a federal judge has ruled police didn't need a warrant when
they attached a satellite tracking device to the underbelly of a car
being driven by a suspected Hells Angels operative.

[...snip...]

All Times Union materials copyright 1996-2005, Capital Newspapers
Division of The Hearst Corporation, Albany, N.Y.


    
 


------ End of Forwarded Message
  


--
Josh Duberman, Pivotalinfo LLC,
15100 SE 38th St. #819, Bellevue,
WA 98006; Tel:(425) 746-0050;
Cell:(425) 591-8200; pivotalinfo@xxxxxxx;
Information For Solutions In Business & Science



------ End of Forwarded Message

You are subscribed as roessler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip

Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/