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authenticated smtp problems



Hello,

One of my email providers just migrated to a new email system
(Zimbra).  With just a tiny adjustment in my muttrc (change from
imaps://old.domain.com to imaps://new.domain.com) I seem to be
able to read mail just fine.

I cannot send it in the way I'm supposed to.

They require authenticating smtp with ssl, so I have
smtp_url=smtps://user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  I keep getting "connection
refused".  The debug report gives me this:

Connection failed. errno: 61...  Could not connect to
new.domain.com (Connection refused).  
Connected to new.domain.com:465 on fd=-1 mutt_socket_close:
Attempt to close closed connection.  
imap_access: found Sent in cache

If I try to put port 587 into smtp_url, I get the following:

SSL failed: error:140770FC:SSL
routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol 
Connected to new.domain.com:587 on fd=-1 mutt_socket_close:
Attempt to close closed connection.

For a while I was getting Error 6 in the debug report.

I don't understand what's going on.  Apple Mail can send mail
with the new system just fine, using authenticating SSL smtp
server, as can Thunderbird (in Mail.app, the box for Use SSL is
checked, and next to "Authentication" it says "Password".  I even
tried reverting to msmtp, but couldn't get that to work at all.
Msmtp would tell me that the server doesn't understand TLS, but
if I have tls off and auth on in the msmtprc, mutt complains that
the server doesn't understand authentication!  I know it does,
since Apple Mail does it and the university's new system
instructions explicitly say to turn on authentication and ssl.

Oddly I can send mail from mutt *unauthenticated*, using
smtp://new.domain.com  Mutt is getting hung up on securely using
smtp.  I would like to do it securely, not only because my
provider says we have to, but because I'll bet a lot of money the
server won't let me do it sans authentication when I'm on the
road (which I haven't been able to test yet).

I cannot tell if this is a bug in the new system, in mutt, or
with my setup.

I am on OSX 10.5.7, with mutt 1.5.19hg from 05/15/2009.  I tried  
reverting to 1.5.19 with no change.  The same stuff happens on
10.4.11.
-gmn