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[IP] more on more on Andrew Tobias on Flag Burning



Begin forwarded message:

From: L Jean Camp <ljeanc@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: June 29, 2006 6:45:43 AM EDT
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [IP] more on more on Andrew Tobias on Flag Burning
Reply-To: ljean@xxxxxxxxx

Political debates are about ideas; but also about the real lives of
real people who could be affected. You forgot about them in your
listing of things about which I might care.

An important part about PASSING A LAW is that it implies it will be
enforced against some unfortunate soul.  Like laws against "drugs" and
'terror" the law is not against the idea of flag burning. It is
against the act of a person who might burn or dishonor a flag. When
such a law is passed this expands the power of the state to arrest,
imprison or otherwise harm someone. You appear to be hoping that the
law is pointless, it will alter nothing. Are you sure? That this law
would never ever be used?

I was once a foolish young student who might walk right into some such
law. I care for those people who still are, or who might yet be. Why
do you want to hurt them?

Politics is above all about individuals, if we choose to help or harm
ourselves and each other.  My core obejction to both this law and the
Bush Administration is the consistent investment in the sheer
meanness, from the petty to the great.

thanks,
Jean

On 6/28/06, David Farber <dave@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

perhaps to the Bill of Rights and our freedom

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Munro, Neil" <NMunro@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: June 28, 2006 4:55:53 PM EDT
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [IP] more on Andrew Tobias on Flag Burning



Just a few minor questions;

Given that complaints about the constitutionality of a properly
accomplished constitutional amendment are logically ridiculous (Here's
the short version; The constitution specifically allows the Senate to
forward amendments to the states), then I'd like to ask;
Is the dislike of a flag-burning amendment powered by opposition to the amendment's moral claim - that our personal freedom of expression should 
be limited for the good of the collective?
Is the dislike of the amendment powered by fear than any victory by the collective-faction will lead to more victories by that faction and thus 
result in practical, tangible limits on our freedom of expression?
Is the dislike of the amendment powered by a desire not to grant even a 
symbolic victory to another sector in society, in this case, to the
socially conservative Republican voters?

Neil



-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber [mailto:dave@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:20 PM
To: ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IP] more on Andrew Tobias on Flag Burning


sys something about our Senate


Begin forwarded message:

From: Gabe Goldberg <gabe@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: June 28, 2006 12:25:33 PM EDT
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [IP] Andrew Tobias on Flag Burning

And this morning Sen. Orin Hatch was on NPR opining that yes indeed,
passing a don't-burn-the-flag constitutional amendment *is* the most
important thing for the senate to do right now.

David Farber wrote:
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Ralph <rs@xxxxxxx>
> Date: June 28, 2006 6:46:50 AM EDT
> To: Dave Farber <dave@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Andrew Tobias on Flag Burning
>
> http://www.andrewtobias.com/newcolumns/060628.html
>
> Flag Burning
> Published on June 28, 2006
>
> Oh, for crying out loud.
>
> The whole point of America is that you can burn the flag.  Nothing
> sums up her greatness so succinctly.  And it is precisely this -
> that in America you should be free to do any damn thing you please
> so long as it does not impinge on the rights of others - that leads
> most of us to abhor the idea of burning it in the first place.
>
> And one thing you should absolutely be free to do in America is
> criticize your country and express outrage at its behavior - even
> if you're wrong.  We call that the Bill of Rights.
--
Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. (703) 204-0433 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 gabe@xxxxxxxxxxxx 



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