[IP] More on Hayden on NSA program
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Finin [mailto:finin@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:13 PM
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: More on Hayden on NSA program
I was puzzled when I heard this exchange on the radio.
General Hayden was clearly denying that "probable cause" was
the standard for what is allowed in the fourth amendment.
But the Constitution seems to say otherwise. It turns out that
there's a trick involved, so pay close attention.
Here's the exchange:
Q: Jonathan Landay with Knight Ridder. I'd like to stay on
the same issue, and that had to do with the standard by
which you use to target your wiretaps. I'm no lawyer, but my
understanding is that the Fourth Amendment of the
Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to
be able to do a search that does not violate an American's
right against unlawful searches and seizures. Do you use --
HAYDEN: No, actually -- the Fourth Amendment actually
protects all of us against unreasonable search and
seizure. That's what it says.
Q: But the measure is probable cause, I believe.
HAYDEN: The amendment says unreasonable search and seizure.
Q: But does it not say probable ...
HAYDEN: No. The amendment says unreasonable search and
seizure... Just to be very clear -- and believe me, if
there's any amendment to the Constitution that employees of
the National Security Agency are familiar with, it's the
Fourth. And it is a reasonableness standard in the Fourth
Amendment. And so what you've raised to me -- and I'm not a
lawyer, and don't want to become one -- what you've raised
to me is, in terms of quoting the Fourth Amendment, is an
issue of the Constitution. The constitutional standard is
"reasonable." And we believe -- I am convinced that we are
lawful because what it is we're doing is reasonable."
And here is the fourth amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches
and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall
issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The trick is this -- "probable cause" is only needed to get
a warrant for a search, so if you forgo asking for a
warrant to be issued, you are home free. Slam dunk. This
Law stuff is pretty neat.
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