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[IP] more on query A question of unlimited powers





Begin forwarded message:

From: "J. Noble" <jfnbl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: January 15, 2006 1:56:17 PM EST
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx, ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [IP] query A question of unlimited powers

The President's acknowledged disregard of FISA is not perforce a suspension of the Fourth Amendment, which guarantees the "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures." Warrantless searches and seizures have been held not unreasonable in a variety of exigent circumstances, including the opportunistic exploitation of probable cause to search an automobile that might be moved before they can get a warrant, and the seizure of evidence in plan view -- either of which might take the interception of unencrypted communications outside the protection against unreasonable searches and seizures.

The Third Amendment is less forgiving, but it's hard to figure how it might be violated except by the government's failure to call up reservists living at home with parents who wish they would move out, or by Saddam Hussein complaining about U.S. soldiers quartered in the Royal Palace. But even if you could come up with a hypothetical that stated a claim, the only case addressing the 3d Amendment is Engblom v. Carey, 677 F.2d 957 (2d Cir., 1982), remanding the trial court's dismissal and holding that striking corrections officers barred from their corrections facility residences and replaced by National Guard troops might have a claim; but on appeal from the remand, the Court agreed that the claim must be dismissed because NY Gov. Carey had immunity on the ground that the corrections officers' Third Amendment rights were not clearly established.

So the short answer is that the President can't "suspend" either the Third or the Fourth Amendment, and hasn't done either until he defies a court ruling that he has.

John Noble


At 4:24 PM -0500 1/13/06, David Farber wrote:
From: Lee Revell <rlrevell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: January 13, 2006 4:04:21 PM EST
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx
Cc: ip <ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, jsq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [IP] A question of unlimited powers

I'd just like someone in the press corps to ask this simple question
(not mine, someone posted it on volokh.com):

If the President can suspend the 4th Amendment search and seizure clause
in the name of national security, can he likewise suspend the 3rd
amendment prohibition on quartering soldiers in homes?



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