[IP] more on Science is for Pansies - REAL Men believe in Genesis!
Begin forwarded message:
From: Bob Frankston <Bob2-19-0501@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: August 5, 2005 3:41:22 PM EDT
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx, 'Ip Ip' <ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: gep2@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, "David P. Reed" <dpreed@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [IP] more on Science is for Pansies - REAL Men believe
in Genesis!
A short answer – it’s not about Yale and Andover. It’s about
elementary schools which teach science as a rite and a system that
can’t help but perpetuate that approach. I’ve already complained
about the bias towards teaching testable facts. While it might be
useful to understand factoring polynomials how much time should be
spent practicing it versus learning to use a symbolic math program?
How many schools teach how to learn let alone the concept of a bug
and the corollary that failure IS learning – if you survive. But
that’s evolution itself.
I've started to put together a list of books at http://
www.frankston.com/?name=books including Louis Menand's The
Metaphysical Club which is gives a good sense of the history of the
ideas and Robert Laughlin's A Different Universe which challenges
scientists' own assumptions about what science it. I've cc'ed David
Reed who recommended those books and lists others athttp://
www.reed.com/goodbooks.html.
The comment below "what we clearly now KNOW is the truth" is a good
example of the dilemma. To me it sounds like an echo of Bush's remark
-- so they are both theories. Instead of arguing about ID in the
abstract I try to use examples likehttp://www.frankston.com/public/
writing.asp?name=BellDesign which don't have the burden of biology in
demonstrating the trap of Intelligent Design.
The good news is that we are starting to have alternative
opportunities to learn (obviously the ‘Net helps). I listened to The
Metaphysical Club while driving rather than falling asleep reading
it. The TV science and history programs have vastly improved though
you are still at the risk of confusing the Discovery Institute with
the Discovery Channel. And phrases like “the miracle of science” only
add the confusion I thank Jon Stewart for calling the networks to
task for describing the survival of the passengers on yesterday’s
crash as a miracle – worth watching – anyone have a URL for it online?
This is why I try to find ways to provide insight such as pointing
out that evolution is about opportunity and rather than selection.
The educational system is what it is – we need to act to provide
alternative sources of understanding rather than simply just blaming
the educational system for doing what it is supposed to do –
reinforce the norm.
Liberating TV from Tellywood is a good start – why is Jon Stewart the
exception? But, alas, Fox TV is where the big bucks are and
ultimately how to do we make people want to escape their comfort
zone? Perhaps this administration is doing it far better than the
critics can.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of David Farber
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 12:06
To: Ip Ip
Subject: [IP] more on Science is for Pansies - REAL Men believe in
Genesis!
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Kobrin, Steve" <kobrins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: August 5, 2005 11:49:31 AM EDT
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [IP] more on Science is for Pansies - REAL Men believe
in Genesis!
There is a broader question here. First, "we" is relative; it is far
from clear to me that the large number of Americans who refuse to accept
evolution would condemn the Pope.
More importantly, where have we failed as educators? It is all too easy
to blame all of this on the Christian Right or fundamentalists. But if
the surveys are right and around 50% of Americans do not accept
evolution, then 50% of Americans do not accept geology, physics,
archeology and a host of other sciences. Most of these people are high
school graduates and a good number have college degrees. What kind of
science education did they have? Evolution is somewhat abstract in the
sense that you can not see or feel it; rocks, however, are not. Strata
are visible to all.
Most of these people have had science in high school or college.
However, if someone tells them that it is all nonsense and the world was
created 5000 years ago, they believe it. One has to wonder about the
quality of science education in this country.
Given Bush's latest statement one also has to wonder about the quality
of science education at Andover and Yale.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of David Farber
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:12 AM
To: Ip Ip
Subject: [IP] more on Science is for Pansies - REAL Men believe in
Genesis!
Begin forwarded message:
From: gep2@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: August 5, 2005 10:32:52 AM EDT
To: dfarber@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IP] more on Science is for Pansies - REAL Men believe in
Genesis!
And the Pope excommunicated scientists, centuries back, who dared to
publicly
cling to the preposterous and anti-religious notion that the sun and
other
planets didn't really rotate around the Earth, either.
Today, we look back at the Pope and other "religious" folk of the era
and laugh
at his (and their) ridiculous arrogance. And we applaud the
scientists and
astronomers who were willing to stand up against "Christians", and
speak about
what we clearly now KNOW is the truth.
It's amazing how history repeats itself, and how little some folks
have learned.
<---- Begin Forwarded Message ---->
From: David Farber <dave@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [IP] more on Science is for Pansies - REAL Men believe in
Genesis!
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 09:29:25 -0400
To: Ip Ip <ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx
[snip]
This argument by numbers demonstrates that what the creationists are
doing is not science despite their protestations. Real science is about
testing facts, not signing loyalty oaths. No matter how many theocrats
want material on creationism, the flat earth, or the heavenly spheres
tought in science classes, it's still not science.
[snip]
<---- End Forwarded Message ---->
Gordon Peterson http://personal.terabites.com/
1977-2002 Twenty-fifth anniversary year of Local Area Networking!
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12/19/98: Partisan Republicans scornfully ignore the voters they
"represent".
12/09/00: the date the Republican Party took down democracy in America.
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