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[IP] more on NYC to search transit riders' bags -- but ...





Begin forwarded message:

From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: July 22, 2005 9:49:56 AM EDT
To: Charles Pinneo <pinneo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Dave Farber <dave@xxxxxxxxxx>, Lauren Weinstein <lauren@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [IP] NYC to search transit riders' bags -- but ...



How much useful "intelligence" you're going to collect looking in
truly "random" people's bags in the NYC subway system (ever ridden
that system?  I have) is highly, uh, questionable.  Now, if the real
purpose is -- as you seem to imply -- to have an excuse for
warrentless searches for people with certain racial or ethnic
characteristics, and nothing whatever to do with real
point-of-contact safety (in contrast to the stated purpose), then
this is best defined as an attempted end-run around current law.

If the authorities feel that they need to search the bags of people
who look like they might be members of a certain religion, then let's
have them come out and say it, have the appropriate public debate,
and decide as citizens if that is a direction we really want to take
this country.  Enough of treating us like children with fairy stories
of "random" searches on massive transit systems that will somehow
protect us.

--Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@xxxxxxxx or lauren@xxxxxxxxxx or lauren@xxxxxxxx
Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800
http://www.pfir.org/lauren
Co-Founder, PFIR
  - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org
Co-Founder, EEPI
  - Electronic Entertainment Policy Initiative - http://www.eepi.org
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com
DayThink: http://daythink.vortex.com

 - - -


Lauren,

Common sense says that random searches are intelligence gathering in
a cat and mouse game. The more we know about terrorist activities the
more advantage we have against them. In the second world war the
Nazis never found out that the allies had the enigma machine. Do you
think the police are going to tell the public what they are really
looking for? Hopefully they don't. We're all just guessing what will
be found and what the outcome will be.

Charlie Pinneo
pinneo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Jul 21, 2005, at 5:36 PM, David Farber wrote:




Begin forwarded message:

From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: July 21, 2005 4:30:23 PM EDT
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx
Cc: lauren@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: NYC to search transit riders' bags -- but ...


Dave,

As noted in:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/nyregion/21cnd-security.html?
pagewanted=2&hp

NYC is about to start "random" bag checks of transit system riders.

A number of questions immediately spring to mind.  Will the
inspections be truly (pseudo)-"random" in a mathematical sense, or
random in terms of "White-skinned all-American looking males are
rarely 'randomly' selected"?  What happens if inspectors find
contraband or suspicious radical materials during their searches
(e.g., printouts of your IP postings from this mailing list?)

Authorities say that persons who do not wish to be inspected will be
allowed to leave.  Uh, does this mean they can just move onward to
some other station where the "random" selection isn't likely to hit
them the next time?  Or will they be followed, tracked, and
otherwise become a "person of interest" by virtue of refusing a
search?

And most depressingly, exactly how will this policy prevent
suicide bombers (presumably a key demographic) from exploding
their payloads in the terminals prior to or during inspections,
or bombers in general simply shifting from mass transit to any
number of other "soft" targets around the metropolitan area
(sidewalks?  stores?  shopping centers?  Times Square?)

Of course, this is the same NYC where authorities tried to ban
cameras on the transit system -- another brilliant security move.

You can't blame authorities for trying.  They are desperately
attempting to make people *feel* that they are safer, even when they
know that their efforts in the face of such asymmetric threats are a
drop in the bucket.  Even London with its vast camera-based
surveillance infrastructure, is learning that while such systems may
be useful for after-the-fact analysis, they are largely impotent to
deter attacks overall.

The powers-that-be know all this.  The sooner that they start talking
straight to citizens about the realities of these situations and the
forces that create people willing to commit such attacks on innocent
persons, the sooner we may all be able to work toward genuine
solutions that still preserve our basic values.

--Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@xxxxxxxx or lauren@xxxxxxxxxx or lauren@xxxxxxxx
Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800
http://www.pfir.org/lauren
Co-Founder, PFIR
  - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org
Co-Founder, EEPI
  - Electronic Entertainment Policy Initiative - http://www.eepi.org
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com
DayThink: http://daythink.vortex.com



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