[IP] read more on Understanding Anti-Americanism
Begin forwarded message:
From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: August 22, 2004 9:46:48 PM EDT
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx, Ip <ip@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [IP] more on Understanding Anti-Americanism
Dear Dave and IP,
I can totally agree with the comment from Erik Huizer. I will just note
that as a Dutch he may feel that most of the European Governments
supported the Iraq mistake. As a French I would remind that "old
Europe" opposed. We are not proud of it, as we now start feeling that
Iraq was not only a lack of experience, but a deliberate attempt to
play the "Killing of the King" game. Last time it lead the USA to Viet
Nam.
I fully agree that for us USA is the country we most fear. But I would
like to explain that a little bit.
We fear serveral things. First we fear the future as we see no
difference between Kerry's and Bush's IQ, lying and flip-floping. Then,
we see an US Corporations cultural globalization for a global consumer
market which as no chance to be globally accepted, but we are imposed:
so we start feeling we all need some fresh air. And that some may want
to go farther than 9/11, when ethical, souls and religious feelings are
hurt. Life is less and less dollar - or any other money - and we are
afraid some are not understanding it.
Then we are afraid because we know you probably far better than you
know us, and what happens in your country sounds quite un-American to
us (very hard for us to think that some Yankees are turning Nazi). We
certainly understand that the Homeland thing is something we started
eight or nine centuries ago, which is quite a complex thing to
integrate in a free society : so we are OK with its tuning bugs.
But we feel that you (US Citizens) are the first afraid ones and that
you accept them without complaining. This is not fitting our image of
the American Cow-Boy. So, we know start having in mind a possible
future : a American Civil War. And we are afraid such a war may become
global. We are afraid also because we do not understand its rationale
except the idea that "stability is in war, not in peace", meaning it
would be only a way for some to stay in charge.
I must say it is a strange feeling. May be it is the end of WWII : we
just discovered that the USA are just another country in the world. Not
"the USA" we were used to share with, to know sometimes better than our
own. The shock is that we discovered that _they_had_to_ lie and cheat
and that the world was accepting it, knowing tag it was lies and
cheating. Also that Bush has killed more people in Iraq than Saddam. So
who is next ?
Also for those who are interested/ (and many start being, as the
"Yankee issue" becomes a more and more studied one), New American
Century, Skull and Bones, Brown Brother, Harimann history, new elements
on Dallas shouting, etc. etc. are preoccupying tales. They are
preoccupying because they do not sound "American", but we start
learning they are, and for a very long. "Six days in May" or "The days
of the Condor" ....
Anti-Americanism? No. Fear of America, no.
Fear of having to fight you, because you are wrong. Yes.
Very odd.
jfc morfin
At 19:11 22/08/2004, David Farber wrote:
Begin forwarded message:
From: Erik Huizer <huizer@xxxxxxxx>
Date: August 22, 2004 7:12:56 AM EDT
To: dave@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [IP] Understanding Anti-Americanism
Dave,
I really have problems with this view of anti-Americanism. Of course
the rest of the world deals with stereotypes of the USA, distributed
mainly by your own movie and TV industry. However that is exactly the
same for any other country. Everyone ouside my country seems to
believe we live behind Dikes and walk on wooden shoes and are very
tolerant towards drugs. Most countries in the world, including the USA
assume that the Netherlands is the root of all drug-evil.
On average those stereotype misgivings balance out and do not create a
real feeling of anti-country in any respect. Until Bush came into
office the Netherlands and its inhabitants were real pro-American. Teh
USA was at the top of the list of nations considered most-friendly.
Even before 9/11 the USA had slipped down that list. Bush turned
Clintons decision about the Kyoto protocol upside down, and that hurt
(Dutch care very much about the environment). Then Bush opposed the
internetional court of law for war crimes established in my country.
He even went as far as to adopt a ruling that the USA can invade the
Netherlands at any time to free US soldiers that would be on trial
before that court. (The reasoning being that US soldiers do not ever
commit war crimes, yeah right).
As you can imagine, being the only country in the world where the
US-president now has a carte-blanche for attack does not help to
increase popularity. The US tumbled down the list of most friendly
countries and entered on the list of most feared countries.
9/11 reversed that. There was a lot of sympathy over here and people
really grieved with your countrymen over what happened. We supported
the anti-terrorism plans. But then bit by bit we saw things happening
that again reversed everything: the protection of the American steel
market (against WTO agreement), the Patriot act and (probably
somewhat a stereotype, but still...) the perception of the Americans
dealing away freedom for safety. The horror stories of non-US
travellers boarding planes to/from the US. The war on Iraq, which we
were unsure about (remember that almost all European governments
supported Bush in his attack on Iraq, but 90% (!) of the population of
Europe (including teh UK) was against it). Then the llack of weapons
of mass-destruction, the uncovering of lies, untruth etc.
All that has instilled a lot of anti-Americanism and has made the US
now number one of the list of most feared nations.
However, bad as that may be, it is not all bad. Most people in Europe
I believe know that this anti-Americanism is directed against politics
and government. We know too many Americans personally to be able to
dislike the American people (on the contrary). We also realise that
Europe still is not a unity that is able to effectively respond to
world-crisis, and we need the US to do that.
So there is a lot of anti-Americanism in Europe, but it is not just
based on stereotypes and it is also not so deep that it is harmful
(yet). However it is certainly due to developments ofver the past
three years, to think otherwise is unrealistic.
Erik Huizer
University of Utrecht
The Netherlands
--On zaterdag 21 augustus 2004 16:42 -0400 David Farber
<dave@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Stephen D. Poe" <sdpoe@xxxxxxx>
Date: August 21, 2004 4:38:24 PM EDT
To: Dave Farber <dave@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Understanding Anti-Americanism
Reply-To: sdpoe@xxxxxxx
UNDERSTANDING ANTI-AMERICANISM
by Barry Rubin
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